Torah Community Connections

Week 24 - Tuesday - 9 May 2000

PESAHIM: CHAPTER 9: MISHNAH 10

If the korban pesahs of two groups were confused, these draw one for themselves and the others draw one for themselves; one of these comes to these, and one of these comes to these; and they say thus: "If this korban pesah is ours, you withdraw from yours, and you are subscribed for ours; and if this korban pesah is yours, we withdraw from ours, and we are subscribed for yours." And likewise five groups of five or of ten each, they draw for themselves one from each group, and they say the same.

Kehati

If the korban pesahs of the two groups were confused - before they were slaughtered, when the members of each group are still to withdraw from their korban pesah and be subscribed for another korban pesah, these - the members of one group, draw one for themselves - take for themselves one of the confused pesah sacrifices, and the others - the members of the other group, draw one - the other korban pesah, for themeselves; one of these - from one group, comes to these - the other group, and one of these - from the second group, comes to these - the first group;

And they - the members of each group, say thus - to the one who came to them:

"If this korban pesah is ours - i.e., if we have now chosen our korban pesah (for which we were initially subscribed), you withdraw from yours - from your korban pesah, and you are subscribed - with us, for ours - our korban pesah;

And if this korban pesah is yours, we withdraw from ours - from our korban pesah, and we will become members of the other group, and we are subscribed - with you, for yours" - your korban pesah. Thus, if they exchanged their korban pesahs, then each group withdrew from its korban pesah, and subscribed for the korban pesah that it chose. The reason why it is necessary for one member of each group to come to the other group, and be subscribed with them, and it does not suffice for each group to declare withdrawal from its korban pesah, wherever it is, and afterwards for each group to take one of the korban pesahs that was confused, and be subscribed for it, lehathilah, is that it is forbidden to leave the korban pesah without owners, even for a minimal amount of time, as it is explained in a baraita in the Gemara: " 'And if the household be too little for a lamb' (Ex. 12:4) - the text teaches that they may withdraw, provided that one of the members of the group remains (i.e., all of the subscribers may withdraw from it, and others will be subscribed for it, provided that one of the members of the first group remains, who has not withdrawn from it); the opinion of Rabbi Yehudah. Rabbi Yose says, Provided they do not leave the korban pesah as it is (ownerless; and if all of them wanted to withdraw from it, they must first subscribe others for it. However, the Torah is not particular that specifically someone from the first group remains - Rashi)." At any rate, whether according to Rabbi Yehudah or according to Rabbi Yose, it is forbidden for all the members of the group to withdraw from the korban pesah and leave it ownerless. But now, that one member of one group comes to the other group, the korban pesah is not ownerless, for if they chose their own korban pesah, then all the members of the group, except for the one who went over to the other group, are subscribed for it; and if their korban pesahs were exchanged, then one of them went with his korban pesah to the other group, and when the rest of the members of the group withdrew from it, this one remains subscribed for it.

And likewise five groups of five - members, or ten groups of ten members each, and their korban pesahs were confused, they draw for themselves one person from each group - to the other group. E.g., if there were groups of five people, each of the five people in each group divide themselves up, one for each of the five korban pesahs, and five new groups are formed, in such a manner that in each of the new groups there is one of the original owners of the korban pesah that the group draws for itself from the korban pesahs that were confused, and - after each new group has drawn for itself one of the korban pesahs, the - the other four - say the same - to each one in the group, "If this korban pesah that we have drawn is yours, the four of us withdraw from our four korban pesahs, wherever they are, and we are subscribed for yours." And similarly, if there are ten groups of ten members each, each of the ten people in each group divide themselves up, one for each of the ten korban pesahs. After each new group has drawn one of the korban pesahs, the other nine say to each one in the group, "If this korban pesah is yours, then nine of us are disassociated from the nine korban pesahs, wherever they are, and we are subscribed with you." If, however, the number of members of one group is smaller than the number of korban pesahs, e.g., the korban pesahs of five groups were confused, and one of these groups consists of four members, this procedure is not effective for one korban pesah will remain without any of its original owners. And the halakhah is in accordance with Rabbi Yehudah (in the baraita brought above), that one of the members of the original group must be left.

PESAHIM: CHAPTER 9: MISHNAH 11

If the korban pesahs of two people were confused, one draws for himself one and the other draws for himself one, this one subscribes one from the marketplace, and the other one subscribes one from the marketplace with him; this one comes to that one, and that one comes to this one, and they say thus: "If this korban pesah is mine, you are withdrawn from yours and you are subscribed for mine; and if this korban pesah is yours, I am withdrawn from mine and I am subscribed for yours."

Kehati

If the korban pesah of two people - A and B, were confused - e.g., each one set aside a korban pesah for himself without a group, and their korban pesahs were confused before they were slaughtered, one - A, draws for himself one - of the korban pesahs that were confused, and the other - B, draws for himself one, this one subscribes one from the marketplace, and the other one subscribes one form the marketplace with him - since we fear that their korban pesahs were exchanged, and they cannot withdraw from theirs and be subscribed now for the korban pesahs that each one took from the mixed group, for it is forbidden to leave a korban pesah ownerless (as explained in the preceding mishnah), and it is likewise impossible for each one to subscribe for that of his fellow before he dissociates himself from it (for one may not be subscribed for two korban pesahs at the same time), the procedure is therefore the following: each one of them subscribes together with himself for his korban pesah one person from the marketplace. E.g., A subscribes with him C, and tells him, "Wherever my korban pesah is, you are subscribed for it," and B similarly subscribes D for his korban pesah. There are now two groups, each consisting of two members: A and C in one group, and B and D in the other group. Afterwards -

This one comes to that one, and that one comes to this one - one member of each group comes to one member of the other group. According to Rashi this means: A comes to the korban pesah that B drew for himself, and B comes to the korban pesah that A drew for himself; i.e., A comes to D, who remains with the korban pesah chosen by B, and B comes to C, who remains with the korban pesah chosen by A, and they say thus - A to D, and B to C: "If - our korban pesahs has been exchanged initially, and - this korban pesah - which was chosen by my fellow for himself, is mine - and this is not the korban pesah for which you were subscribed with my fellow, you are withdrawn from yours - the korban pesah for which you were subscribed initially, and you - now - are subscribed - with me - for mine - my korban pesah;

And if this korban pesah is yours - each one of us correctly chose his korban pesah initially, and this korban pesah is yours, for which you were subscribed together with my fellow, I am withdrawn from mine - then I withdraw from my korban pesah, and I am subscribed - with you - for yours" - you korban pesah.

The Gemara asks: According to the opinion of Rabbi Yehudah (in the baraita cited in the preceding mishnah), which is the actual halakhah, one of the original members of the group must remain with the korban pesah. If so, how can the procedure in which each one subscribes with a person from the marketplace, and this one comes to this one, etc., be effective? For if they exchanged their korban pesahs, then the original owner is not subscribed for each korban pesah. According to the opinion of Rabbi Yose, however, who holds that the Torah requires only that the korban pesah not remain ownerless, and there is no need for specifically one of the original owners to remain, the procedure taught in this mishnah certainly is effective. But of what value is it, according to the opinion of Rabbi Yehudah? The preceding mishnah also is interpreted according to the opinion of Rabbi Yehudah (as we explained at the end of the mishnah), while according to the opinion of Rabbi Yose, there is no need that there be in each group at least as many members as the number of korban pesahs that became confused ("Five groups of five five"), for it is possible to subscribe one person from the marketplace. The Gemara resolves this as follows: since Rabbi Yehudah says, "They may not slaughter the korban pesah on behalf of an individual," therefore, from the outset, he intends to subscribe another person with him for his korban pesah, and one who comes from the marketplace is considered as if he were one of the original group.

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